LONDON, 8 November 1939

Dined with Richard. After dinner had a long talk to him with
regard to America. I gave him in broad outline the story of my
cable exchanges with the Prime Minister on the subject. The only
thing I was not specific about was Menzies' definite statement
that he proposed to send Richard to America if I did not go. All I
said to him in regard to this was that I gathered that the Prime
Minister had in mind that he, Richard, would go to America in the
event of my not doing so.

Richard made it clear that he was by no means decided in his own
mind that he would go to America.

We then discussed the question of his going there and two points
emerged, namely that in considering his going to America we had to
have in mind that that would leave the Prime Minister in the
position of having no one suitable to appoint as Acting Prime
Minister if he, the Prime Minister, had to come to a War Cabinet
here, and that Richard's departure from the political arena would
leave no alternative if the Prime Minister, Menzies, came to
grief.

Richard told me that he had urged upon the Prime Minister that
having got rid of Page [1] out of the Country Party, it was
essential that he should come to some arrangement with the Country
Party even if Cameron [2] was rather wild and undependable. He
said the Prime Minister had agreed with him, but he expressed the
doubt whether the Prime Minister would stick to the view he had
then subscribed to.

Richard then asked me what had taken place in my conversation with
Kennedy [3] and I told him the full story.

In the general discussion which followed it emerged that Richard
could see no reason for my going to America if I was not going to
stay as the Minister there.

To this I replied that I could see no reason from the Australian
point of view, although there might be quite good reasons from an
Empire point of view in my going to America for a short time and
renewing my contacts there.

He put it to me definitely would it not be possible for me to go
to America for 6 months, say early in the New Year, after Richard
had been back to Australia and reported on his visit here, and had
had time to get back to London. In the event of my doing so
Richard would come here for 6 months as a Minister. At the end of
the 6 months he would return to Australia; I would return to
London, and someone would be appointed to America.

This I am sure from our conversation is what he would like to do.

We also considered any possible appointee for America and the most
suitable one appeared to be Pearce. [4]

The upshot of the conversation was that Richard should telegraph
to the Prime Minister suggesting the whole matter be left in
abeyance until he Richard gets back to Australia, and can discuss
the whole position with Menzies. At the same time I was to cable
to the Prime Minister indicating that I understood Richard was
cabling to him and in view of that I had asked the Foreign Office
to hold up the instructions to Lothian [5] to approach the
American Government.